Transcript:

Rick Currier (00:00.974)

Well, welcome to my home. It's lovely. Right off the plane into Colorado. Sounds like you're a fan of the state. Been here a couple of times. Absolutely. Were you expecting it to be this cold? No, actually it's pretty on par with North Carolina right now. Well, you weren't here this morning though. True. I think I woke up, it was 28 degrees. Okay. Well then, I didn't experience that yet. Good to keep in mind for tomorrow. So why don't you give the audience just little background on who you are and where you work and what you do. Sure.

Laura Hampton, I have been doing partner marketing now for a little over 10 years, first in financial services. And then, now I am at Drago's, which is a OT cyber security company. So we focus on the industrial side of the house, but, lots of overlap with, you know, people that you've had on the pod before and, you know, partner marketing in general.

the overlap there is pretty typical from what you've seen on the IT side. So that's interesting. And one of the things I want to get into today is this big overhaul that you've done. And I think that's what a lot of people are going to be listening to. But just at a high level, like partner marketing, OT versus IT. Like, you got to tell me more about that because I don't know any differences there, if there are any. Sure, yeah. There's differences that I've had to learn the hard way. So.

When you think about cybersecurity, usually your mind is going to IT. You know, where you're thinking about hackers that are in a basement, digging into, you know, computer systems, trying to hack into security models within certain companies. But when you look at OT cyber, you're dealing with human life in some elements. The water, oil and gas,

electricity that we utilize every day. And so with Dragos, the impact of the work that I was doing when I first started hit me pretty hard in the beginning. So the big difference there is that mission behind it, not that IT cyber isn't important, of course it is. But I didn't realize when I first took this job, how important it would be to me personally.

Rick Currier (02:26.528)

over the past five years. Wow. So you just went through this massive partner strategy rebuild. I have all the questions. before we kind of dive in, why don't you give like just a 10,000 foot view and then I'd love to know like what triggered this, the start of this rebuild. Sure. So at a very high level, if I had to summarize what triggered it, it was really

the maturity of not only the organization, but the industry that I'm in. Industrial cyber is relative to IT or some of the other software companies that you tend to see with like ServiceNow, Fortinet, those type of IT hubs where you have firewalls and systems that you're used to.

The industrial cyber market is volatile. And in my opinion, I won't speak for, you know, colleagues and others in my industry, but for the most part, the consensus there is it's hard to, it's hard to see where this industry is going in the market, at least at a scalable level. The past couple of years, it's gotten better.

but that was really the bigger trigger for us when we started to look at the partner programs that we had in place and if they were scalable. Not to mention we have a full ecosystem of partner types. And so we're looking at not just technology partners with integrations into our software, but we've got original equipment manufacturers that are

You know, they're the environments that our software lives within. So to have them validate through regulatory compliance elements, you know, it's much more complicated than what I was originally thinking we were getting into. And then resellers, bars, channel, and alliance.

Rick Currier (04:38.19)

partners, just really understanding the full ecosystem amongst all partner types and global levels was a learning curve for all involved. Now, I know a lot of people I talked to have a very similar ecosystem in the sense that it's very diverse. Were there certain things that just weren't working or was this more just forward thinking like we need to get to this and our current model isn't going to get us there? And the reason why I ask that is like if I'm someone else like you at a different company,

How am going to realize we need to rebuild our strategy? Right, right. Not necessarily that certain things weren't working, at least not as the catalyst, but really we didn't know what we didn't know at the time. And so we had to take a step back and learn from our colleagues at other organizations, look at the two to three year where we wanted to go, where our customers wanted to go and really find that.

joint go-to-market overlap with our partners and figure out how we best go to market together. And that was an effort that we had to do a lot of research around, especially when you think about a global scale of a partner ecosystem where you've got nuances within the EMEA market as differentiators from APAC, the Americas.

And you know, we have, have partners that are global and scale all those regions, but they have different elements within themselves in subsidiaries, in those international regions as well. So it just was a lot for us to really wrap our arms around and understand what we were dealing with at the time. And that took a little bit of stop and R and D.

All right, so walk me through the rebuild and at least what you're willing to share. Sure. How long did it take and what did you do? Yeah, and to be clear, we're still well on our way. But we started to look at what our integration roadmaps should look like on the technology side. we have had a lot of... We've really ramped up our software for our customers.

Rick Currier (07:01.966)

And when we started to get feedback from customers, understanding what needs were there that our partners could either A, fulfill or B, where we could go to market with them together with their insight into some of those gaps and needs that we didn't have at the time. We also looked at, from the marketing lens at least, how we support the sales joint efforts there.

and what our customers were really looking for. That was one of the places that I think took the longest to really understand because like you said, the ecosystem is so diverse. So all of those different elements and a lot of those, sorry, I'm trying to articulate a way of saying like we had to overhaul our product to be honest.

without saying that. Let me think.

Rick Currier (08:08.18)

because that's really a big piece of what we have to do when it comes to the partner side to be partner friendly. Cut that. Perfect. Can you repeat your question just so can get it Yeah, let's start again.

trying to remember the question. And I derailed myself talking about the product. No, Because that's the place I have to be careful. Yeah, I I was talking about just in terms of the... It was really round... I'm trying to remember if this was a question before the last one. In terms of, you know, were things not... at Wallace Were things not work... Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was asking just... The catalyst of all. Yeah. Yeah, we'll just talk... Why don't you just... Here, I'll just start a new one in terms of just tell me about the process.

Okay, so tell me a little bit about the, like, what did, no, let me start. So sorry. No, you're good, you're good. All right, so why don't you tell me little bit about what did you guys do? What did, what, what does the rebuild entail? Yeah, so when we looked at a global scalable partner ecosystem, we had to really take a step back and look at each department that's involved.

in partner marketing and just working in a partner specific role. That's, I know from listening to your other pod episodes, that's a consistency where you play a small part in every division of the company. And it's hard to really wrap your arms around when you're looking at all the partner types, all the global areas that you want to go to market in.

and how to best support your customers jointly with partners that in some regions, within the industrial cyber market, we're less mature. taking a step back and continuously learning from our partnerships, from our coworkers in departments that we didn't always work alongside at day to day, and just really listening.

Rick Currier (10:20.205)

to what our customers needed and how we could bring our best version of us to the table through the partner lens. That was the big catalyst in how we spanned a scalable go-to-market effort with our partners. That's interesting. It's not just as simple as creating new partner programs, but I mean, you went back to, we got to listen to the customers, what the customers want, and everything flows from there.

Absolutely. And realizing that we don't know, like I said before, we don't know what we don't know. And it's a humbling moment when you realize that you cannot go to market alone. In a market like this, you have to understand so many different dynamics that's impossible for one org to really encompass by themselves. Let me ask you at the beginning, you mentioned that you leaned on peers.

within the community in terms of gathering your research. Was that like a systematic process? Was that you just connecting with people within your network? And the reason why I ask is because a big part of the show is community, network-based. How did that play out for you in real time in terms of utilizing your network or friends of friends in terms of helping you with that research part? Yeah, it's my favorite part of working with partners because it's not easy. Everyone knows who is in a partner-focused role.

you have to walk a very fine line between representing and doing what's best for your company first, and then also building that trust and relationships with your partners to ensure that they are also benefiting from the relationship. And with the ultimate goal, of course, of doing what's best jointly for the customer. So it's been an interesting journey. have, you know, counterparts at partners that

I used to work with in financial services at GSIs, mentors at technology partners like Fortinet, shout out Cheryl. It kind of happened naturally because that is the kind of role that I've always enjoyed. But I think if you get deeper into it, being the liaison and connection point for others,

Rick Currier (12:41.807)

through my network has been the most satisfying. Especially when you look at an industry like OT cyber where you have a knowledge base that we are continuously trying to grow. Shortage of people who are exposed to these environments that are old, so old, factories that are over 100 years old, that are just now being connected to the internet and

digital transformation for the first time ever. And so when you look at it that way and being that connection point between, know, my relationships I've built over time and building a knowledge base amongst those that I interact with day to day, it was really fulfilling and it kind of came naturally. And especially when we look at what the future ends up being.

Rick Currier (13:43.975)

it's gotten to a point where we are in a, we all don't make it, then none of us make it kind of place. And that's where I really thrive. So it's come naturally for sure. Yeah, it's amazing. We're in this world of AI and automation, yet so much of success comes down to what is my personal human connection and how do I leverage that?

to then power those AI automation, technological innovations. love that. AI is the, it's like blockchain used to be two years ago. Everyone's like, I don't know what it is, but we need to focus on it. Totally. Let me ask you about, terms of the global rollout of this rebuild, I know you and I had talked before about, I think you said global consistency, local flexibility, and we hear that a lot, but walk me through a little bit.

of how this actually played out in reality in terms of bringing global teams on board, giving them the flexibility. Was that tough to do? How did you do it? Any learnings out of it? Yeah. And so again, this is still playing out in real time. And we have a new global VP of our partner teams. We had an amazing leader before as well. So we've gotten really lucky in that element. But really, I think

as we look at rolling all of this out and how it's evolving is taking best practices from some of our global regions and looking at how all of our different teams have done things a little bit differently and they need to because there's nuances there that they have to accommodate. taking, you know, the best of the best throughout the organization and implementing that in a scalable way that is

you know, the teams can absorb, it's a lot. We are, looking at operationally even that is, that's been a challenge as the rest of the company scales, keeping up with all the different systems that we've ramped up to scale the rest of the business. So, and we've, we've come a long way there. So really making sure that we are catching up with consistency.

Rick Currier (16:03.149)

that the rest of the business is implementing, whether operationally or internal enablement, external enablement, and just making sure that the global teams feel that they're being supported on the partner side, but that they also have the freedom to do what they know is best for their regions, which is really important to build trust.

across those teams. And that's a big focus of mine right now as we start to roll this out. I wanted to ask you about trust, but before we get there, you mentioned systems. So I know that's a big part of every rebuild because you probably had dispersed various systems and you're moving to new systems. What was that process like and any learnings that you can share out of it? Sure. Yeah. So we had all these different partner types going through, you know,

different motions, so resellers with transactional deal registration, technology partners who had very particular product elements that we need a proof of concepts for and demo capabilities. so as we looked at where the rest of the organization was going, we started to identify the disparate data flows.

some of the gaps that maybe were put in place when we originally rolled out some of our partner programs that just had not been identified before and had snowballed over time and broke those down into a larger bird's eye view diagram of where all the data is coming in and out of, the connection points and where those gaps were then impacting other systems.

And then making sure that when it comes to reporting and the ROI on different partner activities, we're aligned with what the outcomes were for those partner types. for example, with NOEM, we want to make sure that since we have our platform validated within those environments, that we're taking that into account when we look at the cost of doing business year to year.

Rick Currier (18:21.591)

and AOP planning and what our product roadmap looks like and where our integration partners fit into that. And so just as examples, marketplace and cloud partners when we look at scalability. so operationally, it's very important for us to be able to understand and attribute certain partners and partner types to the future of the addressable markets we're trying to target.

So I want to tie this now to trust, right? So you have system changes, internally can be, I'm sorry, pain in the ass. For a lot of people, we have all these global teams. So how do you build credibility internally while still advocating for your partners externally? There's a lot of trust going on right there. So how'd you do it? I mean, it's not perfect. How are you doing it? Yes, again, full disclaimer of this whole...

Episode still very much so in the motions right now. I think we're always in the most yeah, it's just continuous optimization But again, it's really it's understanding where the rest of your not only your internal teams are coming from but your partners to I don't expect my sales teams to You know have a full knowledge base like our cams do and like we

you know, a partner specific role needs to have, we need to be able to support them and enable them in the market to jointly, you know, target certain accounts and customers alongside partners. But as an example, but you know, it's you have to prove that it's in. It's not only in their best interest, but that you have their best interest in mind.

and walking the line of doing what's best for them, but also making it clear that it won't be to the detriment of a partner that you've built years of a relationship alongside. That piece of it's very important to me, and it's not always easy across both fields, right? Even with partners to...

Rick Currier (20:32.687)

It's always a balancing act of building that trust and keeping that trust. And it is nowhere close to perfect, but I think it just takes time and it takes proof points. internal case studies is a big thing that we're looking at focusing on where instead of, know, pushing certain elements through here's what the future could look like. Here's this runway. It's here's this win jointly.

Here's where we got it right and where our teams can benefit from those learning curves and and Utilize those tactics in the future to go to market together So it's it's it takes time. There's no easy win there to be honest Yeah, certainly and I know this is an ongoing process. So maybe you're not there yet, but have there been any moments where

You said, wow, this new model is working. Well, so I recently had a moment, even just within the past couple of weeks, where maybe not this new model is working, but we have been doing something right. and it was when our new VP came on board. he was a, I had worked with him at first, a OEM in my first couple of years at Dragos and then a technology partner.

after that, and then him coming on board as our VP, and we're very lucky to have him. But I did have, you know, our first couple one-on-ones, had this moment of, we had, clearly we must've been doing something right. I must've been doing something right in building these relationships to have someone go through two.

partnerships that we have connected on and worked alongside with and have them come on board after it goes and Be excited about what the future looked like and what the program would look like and what we're trying to build That was one of the more recent moments of wow. Okay We don't get everything right, but we're doing something, right? So that was one of the more recent times that

Rick Currier (22:52.601)

We had one of those moments. mean, having that past relationship with that VP, that must change to, you know, at least add some confidence to the trajectory of where this next phase goes, right? Absolutely. Especially with different types of partners. Again, the OT market and the dynamic of it just alone is volatile, hard to navigate when you're looking at planning across multiple years.

operational teams, our finance teams, strategy teams, they're incredible. But from a partner side, when you look at what that trajectory should look like, it has definitely instilled a lot of confidence and optimism. Having someone like him coming on board, we were very spoiled with our previous leader as well. And he had similar relationships and respect within the market. And so

having someone else coming on board with fresh dynamics and understanding of different partner types is excellent. So I'm sure you've learned a lot through this whole process. What is one thing that you would do differently if you had to do it again? And then what's one thing if somebody else was doing it that just one thing you have to do it this way or do this particular thing? Sure. One thing I would probably do differently is identifying

the priorities to the customer sooner. And that's coming from more of a marketing lens where when you look at such a broad market, global, five to six different partner types, all of them having elements they bring to the table and vice versa. I think what I would have done much more quickly is get down to the root of

where our customer journey is going and aligning those priorities from the beginning. It's not always easy to see that in the beginning when you haven't built all these things out and you haven't had the failings that you learned from that standpoint. But if you keep your eye on what your customers are driving towards, because our partners are part of the customers,

Rick Currier (25:14.425)

buying journey and really looking at it from that standpoint, you get to the right place much faster. And it helps you cut through some of the noise of where to prioritize, especially when you're going through a rebuild. One of the things you must do, and I spoke about it a little bit earlier, but I feel very passionately about it, is to always keep in mind you cannot

No, you don't know what you don't know. The relationships and just the knowledge sharing that I've experienced at Dragos over the past five years, I at some points in my career there have felt more confident going to my counterparts that I worked with day to day at partners and asking them the dumb questions than I did, you know, doing that amongst a meeting with my colleagues.

And not to say they're not supportive either, but when you are gauging different mindsets and different viewpoints, you really get a better scope of what preemptive roadblocks will I encounter? I went to Cyber Marketing Con this past December and hearing some of the IT cyber roadblocks that the partners had encountered.

we had always looked at, we knew there was some overlap there, but we had always looked at our side of the house as, know, there's gonna be differentiators. There's going to be different ways that we scale that won't correlate to that industry. But wiping that mindset clean and going into each partnership, each exposure to.

Organizations that are a part of your industry and learning as much as you can from their viewpoint and applying what is relevant to your ecosystem is the biggest takeaway that I would I would I Would say is the most important to be successful in partner marketing. So thinking about community What can partner marketers do to best support each other when they're going through big transitions like this? Yeah I think

Rick Currier (27:33.475)

Be as open as you can with each other. I think there is, there's a mindset that these days is hard to break out of where you always want to come across as, you know, we are doing everything right. We've got our shit together, you know, and to a degree, I think once you've established the trust across partnerships, which is, you know, a core part of partner marketing in general,

That's the perk of that, is coming to the table and saying, hey, I want us both to be successful. That's the whole point of our partnership. What are your thoughts on this? I'm struggling with this. I would love your insights on this. And just breaking outside of the mold and being curious about how your partners are doing things and where you can improve based on those learning lessons. That's probably, I've.

I have saved myself a lot of miserable scenarios by asking for advice from counterparts across a ton of different partners over the years. Yeah, I know. think you're right. think the challenge is you have to be vulnerable. And I know there's a lot of platforms. It's hard to do that. Like LinkedIn, I live on LinkedIn. It's hard to be vulnerable and ask for help on LinkedIn. This is a platform where you talk about how great everything is going. But I think you're absolutely right, though. You got to ask for help. You got to tell people you're struggling.

And tell, and be vocal about your appreciation. Tell them when they've helped you achieve something or overcome an obstacle within your organization. It's it just because they're not within your company doesn't mean it's not going to build just a stronger relationship across the, across companies. When you tell them where you benefited from their advice and vice versa.

Really make sure that if you are in a position where you can do the same, make the effort and time to do so. Because it's one of the things that have really gotten me to where I am in my career and being vulnerable in that capacity is not easy to do all the time. No, it's not, but I think it's the fastest way to grow and do things correctly. I got one more question for you.

Rick Currier (29:56.271)

As I think about it and ask it, I think it's gonna be my new last question for everybody. So I get to test it out on you. Is it AI? No, no, no, let's see how it goes. It's personal. In a sense. So the question is, what does never go to market alone mean to you now? Like in today? The way I think about this, sorry to interrupt you real quick, but I think it changes for everybody over time depending on what season they're in. It does, yeah.

For me, I could reiterate the relationship element and the trust element of things to literally not go to market alone when it comes to partnerships. But I also think now where I'm at in what I've learned throughout this whole process is never go to market alone means that you also are not going to your customers half

baked. You're going into your market knowing exactly what you bring to the table, and that's encompassing of your partner ecosystem. So when you are building collateral jointly, when you are looking at your product roadmaps, when you are helping your sales teams evaluate different customers and targets, you're looking at a fully baked

ecosystem that you're bringing to the table for your customers and your go-to-market plan is fully encompassing of that. Where I'm at now, I think that that is really the biggest takeaway and what that means to me. I love it because I think a lot of people might just default to their partners on that answer. It was the first time I asked it and it mirrors, I think, what I took away from the overall rebuild plan is you start with the customer.

Yes. everything flows from there. Always. Keep your eye on your customers and you'll get it right more often than not. I love it. love it. Well, we'll link to your LinkedIn on the show notes, obviously, Drego's. Anything else you think we missed you want to chat about? No, no. This is great. I love that you

Rick Currier (32:12.655)

This is something I think everyone on the partner side really needs to hear more about and understand the dynamics across all these different industries. So you're bringing that to the table. appreciate it. No, I appreciate you coming into my home. think we're going to go to downtown Golden now and have a drink and I get to show you my hometown, which is exciting. Yes, definitely. Thanks for coming in. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.